Participating in a Conversation Changes That Conversation

Think of conversations as a living organism

Photo by C K on Unsplash

Happy Tuesday, y'all! I want to thank everyone for the support and engagement on my first Marketing and Music post from last week, it's gotten a very good reception and I greatly appreciate it. I'll link to it in the middle of this post if you haven't had a chance to read it yet.

Imagine a perfectly still lake, if such a thing could exist. No breeze, just clear and calm water.

Then, you toss a rock into the water. Think of all the changes that happen as a result of that one action. The water ripples, and as it moves outward, everything in its path is disturbed. The rock sinks to the bottom, kicking up dirt as it lands. Maybe it disturbs a fish nearby, that fish then darts and that attracts the attention of a larger fish who starts to chase it. A bird flying by sees this chase and flies down to attempt to catch one of the fish.

All that action, all that disruption, all that change happened because of one tiny rock being dropped in a calm lake. Think of every conversation as that calm lake. As soon as you participate in that conversation, it becomes something different. You add or subtract value to the conversation according to every other participant.

How Participating in a Conversation Changes That Conversation

Today I want to talk about a different way to think about conversations in general, but especially ones that happen online.

In 2005, Hugh MacLeod wrote a seminal marketing article called The Porous Membrane. In this piece, written in the heyday of blogging, Hugh argued that blogging helped align internal and external conversations around a company.

Hugh brilliantly made the point that there is an internal conversation that a company is having about itself, then there is also an external conversation that a company's customers are having about that company. When these two conversations are separate, problems arise.

But when these two conversations are aligned, that's when marketing magic happens. When the company and customers are both having the same conversation, the company will benefit. When they are not, the company is in trouble.

For instance, let's say a computer company launches a new line of laptops. The CEO and executive team absolutely love the new laptops. So the conversation within the company itself is quite positive.

But the external conversation happening in the marketplace is quite another matter. Critics and customers bash the laptops as being overpriced and not providing enough value.

The internal conversation the company is having about the laptops and the external conversation the customers are having about the laptops are completely misaligned. So if the company doesn't listen to the marketplace and starts promoting the laptops, they will literally be throwing money away, because they aren't listening to the marketplace and addressing their complaints about the laptops.

The solution, is for the company to engage with customers and participate in the external conversation that customers are having about the laptops. At the same time, the company could invite customers to engage with them and come to the company and discuss their concerns about the laptops with the company directly.

Both of these moves would CHANGE the internal and external conversations happening around the laptops. When the company engages with customers, they better understand the criticisms the customers have about the laptops, and can address those concerns. That will change the conversation that the company is having. At the same time, if customers talk directly to the company, they can better understand why the company thinks so highly of the laptops, which will change the external conversation around the laptops.

Here's a real world example: Years ago, Dell decided to do a recall on the batteries in one of its line of laptops. The batteries had been creating creating issues for users for a while, in fact there were a few documented instances of laptops suddenly bursting into flames. Needless to say, these issues prompted Dell to quickly recall the batteries.

As part of the rollout of the recall, Dell's social media team was tasked with helping manage PR around the recall. An element of that included responding to bloggers. Dell would monitor the blogosphere, and any blogger who wrote about the battery recall, a member of Dell's social media team would comment on their blog and address their concerns.

In one case, a blogger wrote a particularly scathing criticism of Dell. Claiming the battery issue was a problem that Dell had dragged its feet on and should have handled much earlier. Dell's social media team responded, explained exactly what they were doing to handle the issue, and clarified that the batteries were actually supplied by Sony.

The blogger edited their post, pointed out that Dell had responded directly, and then clarified that the issue at the heart was due to batteries from Sony having issues, not from Dell.

By participating in the conversation this blogger was having, Dell was able to completely change its trajectory from being negative, to positive toward the brand.

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I've gotten in a habit of leaving comments to other Substackers that I have engaged with before, and adding at the end that they have a great week or great weekend. While it's a sincere wish, I realized when I started to leave that in a comment, what I am unwittingly communicating with that wish is “We are done talking”. Or that I'm signaling that I am leaving the conversation, I am saying goodbye. Which of course wasn't my wish, so from now on I won't say that unless I really am leaving lol

This goes to show that every engagement we have in a conversation has a ripple effect that changes that conversation completely. It's also why the writers here who have more engagement around their content tend to be the ones that reply more often to people who first engage with them.

How Can This Impact Everyday Interactions Between Businesses and Customers?

In response to my previous Marketing and Music article, Scott left a great comment I wanted to expound on here:

Really interesting perspective Mack! I do like the contrast between fans and customers. However - and this isn't a leading question - do you think there's an underlying difference insofar as fans are also 'buying' into entertainment, lifestyle, and identity? So for example, whilst I might appreciate my favourite band getting in touch with me, I kinda don't care if my internet provider does, as long as their service is reliable.

Some brands transcend this of course (e.g. Apple) but those are the ones where the brand has become synonymous with identity in many ways.

So I guess the question then becomes: Is it possible to turn customers into fans for every business? If so, what might be the pathway for that?

Make sure you follow Scott and his sub, Curiosity Mindset is one of the subs I recommend, it's very interesting.

Now to Scott's question: I think Scott has hit on a key element of how rock stars can create fans so easily. Beyond the product, you are also buying into the rock star's story. You are buying into a lifestyle perhaps, a new identity.

If you think about it though, all that is branding. Every successful rock star has a story that their fans can become a part of. Their fans have an identity, they have a distinct look and style.

Companies can absolutely do the same thing. Look at brands that stand out in their industries: Apple in the electronics industry. Red Bull in the energy drinks industry. Patagonia in the outerwear industry. They all have distinct branding, values, identity and a story that resonates with customers. Every company has the same ability to cultivate a distinct culture and identity that customers can identify and relate to.

This is another reason why I am so passionate about teaching companies how to better engage with their customers. When companies and customers are engaging, both sides are learning more about the other side. When a company engages with its customers, it begins to understand who it's customers are. What they value, how they see themselves, what's important to them

Companies can then take that information, that better understanding of the customer, and communicate to the customer how their products and services can better fit into their lives. Once the company understands the customer's story, then they can better understand what role their products and services can play in the customer's story.

It all starts with engagement. Back to Hugh's point at the start of the post: Engagement breaks down the walls between the internal and external conversation around and about a company. With more engagement, the conversation the company is having about itself, and the conversation the customers are having about the company, become more aligned.

What happens when a company and it's customers are on the same page and having the same conversation? Ask companies like Patagonia, Red Bull and Apple.

That's it for this issue of Backstage Pass, the issue for Paid subscribers will be on Thursday, see you then!

Mack